braking & cornering - a view

General discussion of any issues that vaguely or not so vaguely relate to stuff about things that concern riding.

Moderator: BAM Moderators

braking & cornering - a view

Postby tfdodo » Thu May 01, 2014 11:03 am

...contrary to the usual advice.
treat this sensibly. It's interesting that the IAM is .. eventually .. paying some more attention to bike control (with Full Control and the skills days) , rather than using Roadcraft to avoid needing them.
There are upsides & downsides with the stuff in the post - it comes from a race school coach, who maybe misses that - as with most critical bike control skills- it needs quite a lot of tarmac practice (maybe more than most average riders will put in) to be reliably available when needed [and when did you last practice e-stops ? ].

But it challenges a traditional tenet of bike control advice, & I think it's true (if not universally applicable), so have a read...

ps I should have credited Kevin Williams' facebook page as the immediate source - cheers Spin :)
Rubber side down,
Nick A (SO-Team B)

"In a perfect world the future wouldn't make a dent..."

Balance Safety and Joy
User avatar
tfdodo
 
Posts: 1186
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:51 pm
Location: Brizzel

Re: braking & cornering - a view

Postby ozzzie » Thu May 01, 2014 9:01 pm

Nick Ienatsch has written a good book on road riding skills that I've got. I'd go with what he says there with some caveats. I think it comes back to the discussion that we sometimes have about how ready a person is for information though. Where are they on the scale of skills? Braking into corners requires a lot of feel and smooth application.

We used to cover some of this (Keith Code originated) material when we did the training evenings and I think it made people think. It'd be nice to reintroduce some sessions like that again.
Oz.
Site Admin
Image

Warning: Postings may contain traces of irony or sarcasm.
User avatar
ozzzie
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2255
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Willy Bridge

Re: braking & cornering - a view

Postby GsxrGareth » Fri May 02, 2014 9:08 pm

Yup its a good skill to have but its a painful/expensive lesson to learn if you get it wrong. Most of my learning has been learning from my mistakes (hence my large supply of pain killers). So, how to learn? Well, if you are as an accomplished rider as me you will get plenty of opportunities because you, like I, will still arrive at corners and have an 'oops' moment where some speed adjustment is required. And probably get away with it. How do I get away with it? Probably experience on road and track and (primarily) the advice of others teaching me how to get away with it - lets call it 'execute it under control'. But I am always conscious that bikes only do 3 things well and they only do them well one at a time. Accelerate, decelerate and corner. (Please lets not have a huge debate about cornering being accelerating because it isn't hepful or an aid to explaining how bikes work). If I want my bike to corner and decelerate I am asking it to compromise itself and I have to ask it nicely.
GsxrGareth
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:46 pm

Re: braking & cornering - a view

Postby GsxrGareth » Fri May 02, 2014 9:40 pm

Oo! Oo! Idea! You know those rigs they use for wheelie schools? I bet someone could build one for cornering training....I'm off to the garage. Warn the local hospital.....
GsxrGareth
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:46 pm

Re: braking & cornering - a view

Postby Horse » Sat May 03, 2014 2:53 pm

http://www.skidbike.com/

Save yourself some welding :)
I assert my author rights: Copyright Design Patent Act 1988 may be quoted in Chain Link posts, but contacted for written consent before any other use/storage/transmission/recording

Argue with me: http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com
Horse
 
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:28 pm

Re: braking & cornering - a view

Postby tfdodo » Mon May 05, 2014 11:46 am

GsxrGareth wrote:Yup its a good skill to have but its a painful/expensive lesson to learn if you get it wrong.

as with pretty much everything in motorcycling... which is why we [IAM] do what we do...

...you will get plenty of opportunities because you, like I, will still arrive at corners and have an 'oops' moment where some speed adjustment is required

then you really, really need to re-assess your Obs & planning - whether that be skills, or attitude (and hence how/whether you apply those skills). Because as the Tech Divers say (& regardless of any braking + cornering strategies to get you out of it again), "you only get away with it... until you don't[/i]. Plus see point 1 above. And, ultimately, if it hurts you could be worse off :eek:

But I am always conscious that bikes only do 3 things well and they only do them well one at a time. Accelerate, decelerate and corner. ... If I want my bike to corner and decelerate I am asking it to compromise itself and I have to ask it nicely.

Hence my " it needs quite a lot of tarmac practice (maybe more than most average riders will put in) to be reliably available when needed" ; and the original article stressing that most riders never realise the extent to which they habitually grab the brakes, which is a Bad Thing ...

Not having a go, but if you're regularly going into corners too hot that should raise a flag to fix, not a "that's life, I hope I'll keep getting away with it" [circuits excepted - they're kind of designed for those sorts of shenanigans if you're up for it].
Rubber side down,
Nick A (SO-Team B)

"In a perfect world the future wouldn't make a dent..."

Balance Safety and Joy
User avatar
tfdodo
 
Posts: 1186
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:51 pm
Location: Brizzel

Re: braking & cornering - a view

Postby ozzzie » Mon May 05, 2014 4:06 pm

I think 'regularly' is the key word there in what Nick says. I hardly ever arrive at a corner going faster that I thought I should be for that corner. I couldn't give you a percentage, but it's fractions of a percent. That's not to say that I have never lost concentration and misjudged, but I'd be very worried if it happened a lot and I would certainly be prioritising that over any other issues if someone else told me it was one of their ongoing hobbies.

I agree that it's useful to learn some more 'sophisticated' techniques, but in a safe and controlled environment, preferably with some instruction. The ethos of what we do is passing on wisdom so that people don't have to learn from their own bad experiences.
Oz.
Site Admin
Image

Warning: Postings may contain traces of irony or sarcasm.
User avatar
ozzzie
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2255
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 1:00 am
Location: Willy Bridge

Re: braking & cornering - a view

Postby GsxrGareth » Sat May 10, 2014 2:47 pm

Or maybe, just maybe, I am particularly critical of my own riding and would rather point the finger at my own misjudgements rather than at those of others as a vehicle to broaden the debate. But thanks for your concern fellas, duly noted :)
GsxrGareth
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:46 pm


Return to Advanced Riding Issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron