cutting daisies

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cutting daisies

Postby tfdodo » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:53 pm

so, other things being equal, you're on a medium-width rural NSL road with no other significant hazards, approaching a blind brow. Where in your lane should you position ? And more importantly, why ?

let's call gutter=1 and "just your side of the centre line"=5 .

[with recognition to Mike Waite as where I came across the phrase and the concept]

enjoy,
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Re: cutting daisies

Postby GsxrGareth » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:51 pm

I'm voting for 2 because it keeps me out of the way of oncoming nutters and gives me the 'jump into the hedge if it all gets too scary' option. Not 1 becasue there may be debris from the verge. not 3 cos you will be on the oil/gravel line compromsing grip. Not 4 or 5 cos the 'bad old me' may be coming toward you, executing an exciting (poorly planned) overtake, on the rear wheel, laughing like a maniac.
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Re: cutting daisies

Postby Horse » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:10 pm

2

Albeit influnced by what I can or - more importantly - can't see :

So that's '-1' - sitting on the fence! :lol:
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Re: cutting daisies

Postby ozzzie » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:57 am

tfdodo wrote:let's call gutter=1 and "just your side of the centre line"=5 .


2.5, road surface allowing.

If it's a country road, you've got a good chance of either pedestrians and/or oncoming vehicles over the brow (although the oncoming vehicles will hurt more).

Sod's law says that there'd be a stopped tractor with big spikes blocking the whole carriageway.
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Re: cutting daisies

Postby wunwinglow » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:32 am

2 for me as well. If you can't see over the brow of the hill, you can't know what is on the other side. Maybe back off some speed too.

Why? Lots of potential dangers might lurk over the hill. Most dangerous presumably some loony overtaking towards you, so being towards the left puts you nearer the safety of the hedge. Too far to the left is in the rubbish of the gutter, and possibly running into pedestrians, cyclists, horses etc, and emerging tractors. Backing off some speed gives you a shorter breaking distance and more chance of avoiding an impact. I would certainly be watching the 'limit point', the brow of the hill, like a hawk, until the view opened up, and hopefully would have preplanned this and got any other observations out of the way beforehand.

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Re: cutting daisies

Postby tfdodo » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:05 pm

As we've kind of arrived at...

the difference is that left-side hazards [ped's, horses, parked stuff] are essentially static. And if [as we should be] we're traveling at a speed such that we can stop in the distance we can see to be clear then stationary obstructions will always be manageable.

What may NOT be manageable (apart from stuff in the gutter) is a foolish incoming overtake by an Impreza or an R1. Closing speed of {our speed} vs {our speed plus 120mph}.

So - Left-hand side (stuff in the gutter allowed for) for me guv.

What I'd suggest we want to avoid is people saying "in the middle" because they're wrongly assuming that the potential risk is the same to both sides.

Share and enjoy :)
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Re: cutting daisies

Postby Horse » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:51 am

+1 to that ^

Trouble is, 'cutting daisies' suggests parts of the bike skimming the undergrowth . . .
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Re: cutting daisies

Postby tfdodo » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:52 pm

I have been known to collect the occasional bits of (suitably soft - so far :shock: ) greenery on or around mirrors, toe sliders etc... :twisted:


(I would like to stress - only whilst keeping the bike otherwise RSD, SSU and on the Grey bit... I'm not talking about parallels to my gravel collection at Donny :cry: )
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Re: cutting daisies

Postby Horse » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:25 am

In my riding pre-training, I did once collect grass on the rhs of the bike during cornering on a rh bend :)

A friend 'found' an old stone milepost in long grass and left a pannier to mark it's location . . .
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Re: cutting daisies

Postby Billy Burns » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:57 pm

I'm also a 1+ on this issue and concur with Nick A, would I dare to do otherwise!!! :P

One other important point is the view that affords you as a motorcyclist. Your view opens up earlier than most cars as your head sits above the level of most cars. This view will give you early sight of the horse/pedestrian and indeed white van man or whoever it is coming the other way and is encroaching your space.

As you approach and ascend the blind brow it will cease to be blind. Your speed should be appropriate to your view as pointed out previously plus you should be preparing yourself for the expected and the unexpected.

A steep ascent to a brow followed by a sharp left or right bend! :cry: Now that's a cracker and a good location for a scrap yard! :twisted:

Marking a NS location with your pannier is clearly not wise as is doing the same on the OS because "they" said the police ride left of the crown of the road. They do and they don't depending on the circumstances. Like all scenarios "It depends". :roll:

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Re: cutting daisies

Postby Horse » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:41 pm

Billy Burns wrote: One other important point is the view that affords you as a motorcyclist. Your view opens up earlier than most cars as your head sits above the level of most cars. This view will give you early sight of the horse/pedestrian and indeed white van man or whoever it is coming the other way and is encroaching your space.


Another advantage we riders (esp. of trailies and big tourers) is the ability to stand up and get a better view.

I left someone standing by getting an early start over a crest during an instructor assessment :lol:

Billy Burns wrote: Marking a NS location with your pannier is clearly not wise as is doing the same on the OS


Don't think he did it deliberately 8)
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Re: cutting daisies

Postby timmygore » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:58 pm

I'm with "Wunwinglow" on this one, particularly with reference to speed. One item implicit in his analysis, but explicit in the real world is that riding towards the apex of the brow the bike's apparent weight is increased - leading to better braking effort, whereas beyond the apex of the brow, the apparent weight of the bike will be reduced for a time as a result of the ground retreating downwards from the wheels (inertial effects).

Since braking effort is proportional to apparent weight - leaving the decision to slow down to near or beyond the apex of the brow may seriously increase the necessary braking distance. I think that slowing down before the apex of the brow is a major benefit to permitting necessary braking actions, if they are needed.

I think that "at or about" position 2 seems to be the right place for the reasons stated by others, and in my opinion better at a reduced speed appropriate to expecting to see obstructions on your own side of the road. Pedestrians (particularly children) and animals can be expected to behave irrationally in situations such as this, given the arrival of a high speed motorcycle feet from their position.

Regards,

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Re: cutting daisies

Postby TTBird » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:34 pm

Get yourself a perriscope and you will be able to spot the enemy. 8) :lol: :x :x :P :roll: :evil: :twisted:
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